As has been previously stated the new board intends to consult with its members and with LUFC fans across the globe to identify the 3 most popular issues which they would like the Trust to take up with the club. the question i would like to ask at this time is how do you, the members, feel this could be best achieved?

As a Trust it is important we work with the members to decide the mechanics of issues such as this and your input would be greatfully recieved so please consider the following aspects;

How do we consult, electronically via emails, hard copy via post (these two options would be members only of course)?

What about the wider LUFC support who we hope to attract into membership, by newsletters at games? internet forums (should they be selected or encompass all)? the press/media? what format could be used to consult with the wider fan base?

What about international LUFC fans, should we seek delegates to canvass their own groups/clubs/organisations memberships?

Any thoughts, comments, suggestions, opinions or advice would be very welcome as would offers of active support.

Many thanks.

If you are only going to contact trust members only then e mail would probably be sufficient.If you are going to attempt to consult a bigger group and somehow get hold of the addresses of season ticket holders, members, supporters club members then post would seem more appropriate.

A news letter at games would seem a better way of attracting new members than canvassing opinion, although automatic membership of the trust when becoming a season ticket holder or the replacement of the current membership scheme with a trust membership scheme would seem ideal from a wider membership perspective.

I realise the above is never going to happen with the current chairmen and would bring into question the independence of the trust, but we do need something quite radical to turn this trust from the small group it currently is into a mass membership organisation.

With regard to wider membership I have got a trust share certificate but do feel that a smaller wallet type card to go with the certificate would be appropriate, and give people a more modern sense of belonging to an organisation.

many thanks for your thoughts bart, i do like the idea of a smaller wallet sized card.

Depends on what we want to achieve. The way i see it we have 2 options..

1 - consult with the members of the trust and canvess their views
2 - consutl with all leeds fans and canvess their views

the benefit of 1 is that their membership becomes real and valid and if other non members want to have their voice heard, they can join the trust - the downside is that the trust then has the potential to become 'eliteist'

the benefit of 2 is that the views are canvessed to a wider audience and could attract more members. the downside is that it could alienate existing members who could question why they are members

My recommendation would be to proactively seek views from our current membership and reactively communiciate with the other leeds fans about progress to date, which could inturn become a very good membership drive tool

yeah this is something i had considered too John and i feel whilst we do want to ensure we get the views of all LUFC fans we have a duty to ensure our membership is represented first and foremost so i agree with what you say entirely.

[quote=]Depends on what we want to achieve. ..............
- the downside is that the trust then has the potential to become 'eliteist'
[/quote]


The use of terminology such as "eliteist" in this discussion shows a worrying lack of understanding and thoroughly misrepresents the true position.

There is no barrier to entry to the trust so it is the very opposite of an elite. There is no barrier to prevent any member from standing for election by the members to the board of the trust - again the very opposite of an elite.
The Trust is a cooperative and is registered and LEGALLY constructed as such. It is open to everyone to join.
There is absolutely no potential to become an elite unless the Trust begins to erect barriers to membership or barriers to election to
the board - neither of which has ever been suggested AFAIK.
All Trust meetings are open to all Trust members. Every member who expresses a wish to attend any Trust meeting has always been invited to that meeting AFAIK.
If voices have not been heard it is only because they have not spoken and it is not because of a refusal to listen on the part of any elite.

Creating a false past or a false alternative does not add to the debate and it should not be the basis for making decisions about the future.
It is the sort of damaging nonsense posted to Waccoe (by those either without knowledge or with another agenda) and should have no place in the process of rational decision making about the future of the Trust.

rick, you did read the word potential didnt you before posting that.

not once did i say we will or want to become eliteist. if i had, then i could understand your response. i said potential otherwise it could be leveled at the group if we do not communicate with all leeds fans

Garlic bread wrote:rick, you did read the word potential didnt you before posting that.

not once did i say we will or want to become eliteist. if i had, then i could understand your response. i said potential otherwise it could be leveled at the group if we do not communicate with all leeds fans

I think you are missing the point that not only is the trust NOT elitist, there is NO POTENTIAL for it to be elitist. It is legally constructed so that it cannot be elitist. The whole of the cooperative movement is based upon the very opposite of elitism and if meaningful decisions are going to grow from meaningful discussions then the basics have to be understood. It is misleading terminology which produces false images and creates a misleading argument. The Trust (board) might take a particular viewpoint on a subject which could be wide or narrow but it can't be elitist. For example, no matter how much money anyone might put into the Trust they can still only hold one share and only have one vote- the same as everybody else.

No matter how many different fans or groups of fans that the Trust speaks to, it can only speak FOR its members. Have you considered what you do when some non-member fans take a different view from Trust members ? which of the two will carry more weight with the board of the Trust ? Even within the membership there will be differing and sometimes even directly opposing views.

Rick- basic point here, there is potential for anything to happen. That's the realistic view regardless of the legal construction. Let's not die in a ditch over it

This thread is touching on a very controversial point here.

Does the Trust speak on behalf of its members or on behalf of all Leeds fans in general?

One would hope that any policy or initiative of the Trust would represent all Leeds fans however I would caution the new Board of admitting to that. In my time at the Trust I was very keen to ensure that we only spoke on behalf of our members thus stopping the oft repeated mantra from non members who were equally keen to remind us that we did not speak on their behalf (but not put as politely as that!!).

Jailhouse John wrote:This thread is touching on a very controversial point here.

Does the Trust speak on behalf of its members or on behalf of all Leeds fans in general?

One would hope that any policy or initiative of the Trust would represent all Leeds fans however I would caution the new Board of admitting to that. In my time at the Trust I was very keen to ensure that we only spoke on behalf of our members thus stopping the oft repeated mantra from non members who were equally keen to remind us that we did not speak on their behalf (but not put as politely as that!!).

from my own perspective i am very clear on this, the Trust gives Leeds fans a voice, an opportunity to have an opinion heard, the chance to exchange said opinions and create an agenda! the Trust also is the vehicle by which that agenda can be aired to the appropriate body with outcomes and/or opinions exchanged and fed back to leeds fans who will then have further opportunity to debate them.

the Trust's members are at the forefront of the Leeds fans whose voices are given the chance to be heard and it is the membership who will lead such debate.

the hope being that this will prove positive for all and encourage more leeds fans to join the Trust once it is seen to prove its worth.

the Trust does not set out to speak for anyone, it sets out to speak too everyone!

This is dangerously exciting but absolutely basic ground for any Supporters Trust.

The Trust by its very nature can only speak for its membership. It may, however, speak to who so ever it likes, but only to achieve its stated aims which must be plainly stated and clearly understood to be the wish of its membership.

At the moment when an individual joins the Trust he or she does soon the basis that the Trust exists to i.e.:

OBJECTS
2. The Society’s objects are, either itself or through a subsidiary company or society trading for the benefit of the community and acting under its control:

i. to strengthen the bonds between the Club and the community which it serves and to represent the interests of the community in the running of the Club;

ii. to benefit present and future members of the community served by the Club by promoting encouraging and furthering the game of football as a recreational facility, sporting activity and focus for community involvement;

iii. to further the development of the game of football nationally and internationally and the upholding of its rules;

iv. to encourage the Club to take proper account of the interests of its supporters and of the community it serves in its decisions;
v. to encourage and promote the principle of supporter representation on the board of any company owning or controlling the Club and ultimately to be the vehicle for democratic elections to the board;

vi. to promote, develop and respect the rights of members of the community served by the Club and people dealing with the Society as set out in the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union, having regard in particular to the need to provide information to members and conduct the affairs of the Society in accessible and appropriate ways;

vii. to build up and develop a positive, proactive relationship with the owners and management of the Club and to promote dialogue between the Club and its supporters on substantial issues including but not limited to stadium development, ticket prices, community relations, diversity and equality issues;

viii. to work in partnership with supporters, directors, staff, players, Leeds City Council, other statutory bodies and other official and independent supporters’ associations, publications and organisations in order to further the footballing and financial success of the Club, enhancing the Club’s benefit to the community it serves.

It is on the above basis that the Trust exists and operates until such time as these things change (and it is very unlikely that the Registrar would allow these things to change).

Having said that if any representative or member of the Trust operates within these objectives then we have no problem about how we do things.

Technically Gary is correct in saying that he should be reaching out to ALL supporters, regardless of if they are members. In fact how else would he encourage new members? Hope they google lufctrust?

Morally, however Gary has a far more difficult task. The imagined or otherwise justified criticism of the Trust from external quarters demands that the "New" trust ensures that it does everything possible to take the existing membership along with it at every turn. As confidence increases amongst the membership and its democratically elected officers this should become more "second nature" than an inherent requirement for all concerned.

From the new board's point of view it needs to let the membership contribute to, understand and endorse a programme of activity to take the Trust forward. The incoming board can act as a catalyst for this process by leading from the front - offering the membership a draft programme for their input, understanding and approval. This "ownership" of the programme provides the board with two vital things: confidence in their own ideas as a result of member approval and more importantly a way of garnering more than just vocal backing for their ideas but the ever important physical support which their proposed tasks will no doubt need.

in terms of getting non members on board one of the key ways to do this is to ensure that not only do you have good links with the rest of the Elland Road community but that you keep them informed too. As per the objectives, this includes the people who live near the ground, the city administration in its many forms and of course other supporters bodies, fora and informal groups.

Gary that is the size of job we have taken on board - it's not rocket science (in fact it basic community development) and it can be carried out by any organisation as long as it has basic aims and objectives always in its minds eye. (Notice I use the word we as all Trust members should be taking this concept on board and asking right how do I get involved and what do I contribute over and above my membership fee?)

I think the first thing is to turn your already stated aims (many of which I'm sure all members can sign up to nem con) into some sort of easy to digest document in order to let the membership as a whole contribute. Your membership person must be ensuring immediately that you have a watertight system for contacting ALL existing members. Which ones are on email, and an email address that you know works, and which ones need contact via the post. This should take priority over ALL other membership activities as members are useless unless there is a working communications channel.

I am tied up for the next day but I will sling together a draft of the sort of communication document I am talking about for people to consider.

Cheers

Steve

good to see you back Steve.

i would really appreciate your drawing up said document please, also can you make the social evening next wednesday at billys bar from 8.30pm, i would love the chance to meet and talk with you over many issues?